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The Patriarch Bartholomew

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nar2720 says:: Citation: The Journal of Ecclesiastical History ? Page 268 by Cambridge University Press, Gale Group, C.W. Dugmore; reply

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nar2720 says:

Correction: The oldest of all Christian Churches is the Armenian Orthodox Church, established in 300AD. The Greek Church followed shortly after.


erzkarlaspern replies:: link icon report icon email icon; The Armenian Church was the first Nnationally-Recognized Christian Church before the Roman Emperor Constantine recognized Christianity as the imperial religion years later. It was not the first founded nor the first in authority.

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AdoptTRUTH says:

Turkey has no right to impose their moslem law on the Christian civilians who are the TRUE indigent people of Turkey.
How dare they say that all future seminary students have to be born in Turkey. There are many of us Orthodox people worldwide, who deserve the opportunity to be educated where Christianity was BORN. Centuries before the yoke of the cruel Seljuk Mongolians who invaded this area and have become the Turks of today.


TRUTH_SEEKER91 replies:: link icon report icon email icon; Why not? America imposed its laws on the true indigent people of America. We kicked them from their homes, and took over completely. Now we are taking their children in mass numbers and placing them in foster care because those "case workers" get extra money for taking "Indian children" away from their homes. Look it up! The point is, if they conquered the land, society says they can do what they want. It's that simple. In America, we say, "If you weren't born here, you can't be the president, ever!". Each society makes it own rules, even yours. That's how they dare do it! If you don't like, conquer them, but you won't. You'll just sit here on a board and whine about it all day long!

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dbbsto says:

As a Christian, I am saddened by what is happening and of the shameful lack of support that the middle eastern Christians are receiving from the western "Christian" nations. But at the same time, the Patriarch is guilty of the same things he accuses Turkey of, its just that he isn't as powerful. Just like the Greeks complain about being "Turkified" which obviously makes some sense if you live in Turkey...the Greeks hold the Orthodox Christians in America with their "hellenization"...there is an autocephalous Orthodox Church in America (oca.org) with roots 200 hundred years back to Russian missionaries and Bartholomew refuses to recognize it's autocephaly and wants it to submit to his (ie. "Greek") rule...the greek archdiocese in American are actually not under the Church of Greece but are under Bartholomew...and they are all adorned with Greek flags and the trappings of Greek nationalism and culture - and this is in the United States, where we already have an independent Orthodox church. So, this is really just a case of the pot calling the kettle black.


erzkarlaspern replies:: link icon report icon email icon; There is certainly some truth in what you say. A similar situation exists in the great nation of Ukraine, where the the majority of local Ukrainian Orthodox have established their own Patriarchy in Kyiv, the Primate Church of all the Russias, but the Russian Orthodox Church does not wish to respect it and insists they are in charge of Ukraine as well. Since the Russian Orthodox Church is the largest in all of Byzantine Orthodoxy, Constantinople cannot recognize the Ukrainian Church as autonomous! There are also two other Ukrainian Ortodox groups, but smaller: the Autonomous Orthodox Church under Constantinople and the Russian Orthodox churches in Ukraine. Why shouldn't they all unite in one national Church?

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bahjatn says:

As a Arab, Middle Eastern, Main stream, Orthodox Christian who spent half of his life in the USA, I would like to point out that the policies of the west in general has been detrimental to the Christian presence in the Middle East due to its anti Muslim tone. Whether the west agrees or not, these policies have neglected the Middle Eastern Christians and antagonized the Muslims so that we paid the price so far. The Middle East Christian are in general associated with the Christian west in the eyes of your average person so that they are the easy way to get back at the west. We see that in this interview in Turkey, we see it in Egypt, and we will see it more and more. You just have to look at the immigration of the Christians from the Middle East... I think the West should think about this very hard.

Thanks 60 Minutes

BN


hierosolimitanum replies:: link icon report icon email icon; The West could not be more tolerant of Islam. The East and the Islamic World could not be more hostile toward Christianity. Western policies advocate complete religious tolerance, both in Europe and in the United States, and usually at the expense of the Christian integrity of European nations and the safety and homogeny of nation-states. The consistent influx of Muslim immigration into Europe has altered the dynamic of European society irrevocably, while the Muslim world continues to enact pogroms against Christian communities. The discrepancy is despicable. Europe should press diligently the Islamic world to acknowledge and assert respect for basic human rights and tolerance of religion, as mosques continue to go up in the cities of Christendom. Turkey wants admittance into the EU, but wants also to purge Christianity from its boundaries, yet Muslim Turks who immigrate to Germany in hordes enjoy great luxuries and freedoms there, where a civilized society gladly allows them the opportunities and amenities of the West, sometimes more than intrinsic citizens.


erzkarlaspern replies:: link icon report icon email icon; You are quite right, of course, but the Western governments are Not Christian. They are secularists, and many Protestant groups are so pro-Israel that they ignore Middle Eastern Christians. It is mostly the Pope and perhaps Patriarch Bartholomew who help out some with their solidarity, but what is needed is also political solidarity.

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African1000 says:: One story led to another and I stumbled on Cenk Uygur of TYT or The Young Turk channel. He is a Turkish born American (came from Istanbul at age 8) with Business and Law degrees from Wharton and Columbia respectively and contributor to among others the Huffington Post. Google or Youtube "Cenk Uygur" or "TYT" and you'll see the future, the inside job, from within America.; reply

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MMiskos says:: God Bless the Christians of Egypt. One of the most ancient of Christian communities in the world. I have read many horrendous stories about their persecution. Shame on the Egyptian government for allowing these crimes to occur.; reply

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African1000 says:

Clashes in Egypt After 7 Killed in Church Attack
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: January 7, 2010
Filed at 11:51 a.m. ET

Thousands clashed with police during a funeral procession Thursday for six of seven people killed in an attack on churchgoers leaving a midnight Mass for Coptic Christians, security officials said.

Christians, mostly Copts, account for about 10 percent of Egypt's predominantly Muslim population of some 80 million people. They generally live in peace with Muslims although clashes and tensions occasionally occur in southern Egypt, mostly over land or church construction disputes.

In recent years, the clashes have spread to the capital.

Wednesday's attack, which happened on the holiest day in the Coptic calendar, was the worst known incident of sectarian violence in a decade.

In 2000, the deadliest Christian-Muslim clashes in years left 23 people dead. All but two of the 23 were Copts. The clashes were touched off by an argument between a Coptic merchant and a Muslim shopper in the southern village of el-Kusheh.

The latest attack, however, was unusual because it appeared to have been planned, rather than the customary spontaneous violence that arises from misunderstandings or disputes between Muslims and Copts.
The Bishop of the Nag Hamadi Diocese said the dead were mostly young males in their teens.

As Islamic conservatism gains ground, Egypt's Christians have increasingly complained about discrimination by the Muslim majority.

Coptic Christians are limited in where they can build churches and must obtain government approval before expanding existing facilities. The government insists Christians enjoy the same rights as Muslims.
Bishop Kirollos of the Nag Hamadi Diocese told The Associated Press six male churchgoers and one security guard were killed. He said he left St. John's church for his nearby home just minutes before the attack. He said he saw five bodies lying on the ground.

''I heard the mayhem, lots of machine gun shots,'' he said in a telephone interview.

The bishop said he was concerned about violence on the eve of the Coptic Christmas, which falls Thursday, because of previous threats following the alleged rape of the 12-year-old Muslim girl in November.

He recently received a message on his mobile phone that said: ''It is your turn,'' he said.

''My faithful were also receiving threats in the streets, some shouting at them: 'We will not let you have festivities,''' he said.

Because of the threats, he said he ended his Christmas Mass one hour early.

http://www.innerlightproductions.com/archive.htm


erzkarlaspern replies:: link icon report icon email icon; Let us have solidarity with our Egyptian Coptic brethren who have suffered so much for their faith during the last 1,400 years.

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African1000 says:: Clashes in Egypt After 7 Killed in Church Attack
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: January 7, 2010
Filed at 11:51 a.m. ET

Thousands clashed with police during a funeral procession Thursday for six of seven people killed in an attack on churchgoers leaving a midnight Mass for Coptic Christians, security officials said.

Christians, mostly Copts, account for about 10 percent of Egypt's predominantly Muslim population of some 80 million people. They generally live in peace with Muslims although clashes and tensions occasionally occur in southern Egypt, mostly over land or church construction disputes.

In recent years, the clashes have spread to the capital.

Wednesday's attack, which happened on the holiest day in the Coptic calendar, was the worst known incident of sectarian violence in a decade.

In 2000, the deadliest Christian-Muslim clashes in years left 23 people dead. All but two of the 23 were Copts. The clashes were touched off by an argument between a Coptic merchant and a Muslim shopper in the southern village of el-Kusheh.

The latest attack, however, was unusual because it appeared to have been planned, rather than the customary spontaneous violence that arises from misunderstandings or disputes between Muslims and Copts.
The Bishop of the Nag Hamadi Diocese said the dead were mostly young males in their teens.

As Islamic conservatism gains ground, Egypt's Christians have increasingly complained about discrimination by the Muslim majority.

Coptic Christians are limited in where they can build churches and must obtain government approval before expanding existing facilities. The government insists Christians enjoy the same rights as Muslims.
Bishop Kirollos of the Nag Hamadi Diocese told The Associated Press six male churchgoers and one security guard were killed. He said he left St. John's church for his nearby home just minutes before the attack. He said he saw five bodies lying on the ground.

''I heard the mayhem, lots of machine gun shots,'' he said in a telephone interview.

The bishop said he was concerned about violence on the eve of the Coptic Christmas, which falls Thursday, because of previous threats following the alleged rape of the 12-year-old Muslim girl in November.

He recently received a message on his mobile phone that said: ''It is your turn,'' he said.

''My faithful were also receiving threats in the streets, some shouting at them: 'We will not let you have festivities,''' he said.

Because of the threats, he said he ended his Christmas Mass one hour early.

http://www.innerlightproductions.com/archive.htm; reply

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MMiskos says:: Firstly, well done to CBS for such an enlightening video about the Patriarchate. As an Orthodox Christian (from refugee parents from Cyprus),having seen him speak on this short video on the Web, Bartholomew encapsulates the spirit of Orthodoxy. In the face of all the obstacles that he has faced from Turkey, he continues his mission to guide and lead Christians from across the world. A separate airing about the Armenian genocide, persecution of minorities etc needs to be done, as it highlights the real face of Turkey. Ultimately, it all comes down to politics, unless the US puts any pressure on their ally Turks, then there will be little left of the Patriarch (not to mention Greeks). I have read from various sources that there are fewer than 1000 Greeks left in Istanbul. The pressure is so immense for all minorites that they are literally "Turkified", adopting Turkish names. This has been done for hundreds of years and is still being ignored by the US today. Its high time the world realised what is really going on in Turkey, and for the US and EU etc to stop appeasing this aggressive, fascist and extremist state. PS no chance, of the 40,000 Turkish troops illegally occupying north Cyprus to leave then?? Ha! and they want to join the EU, what a joke!; reply